HG: Well, you know Dave's very articulate, I don't know if you seen him, he does very few interviews. [INT: Yes, I saw Ted Koppel interview him.] Yeah, I saw that too. But that was all defensive; I didn't see any of Dave in that. But you have to go back to Dave in the 80s, even with the dreadful woman at ABC. [INT: Which one?] Barbara Walters. Although she, we did remotes with her, that were really very funny. We did one at her house and she would have her Christmas party and...trying to think of some of the names. Henry Kissinger is in the front room at the A party, and she's having a party for the staff in the sunroom in the back, for staff. And these things are going at the same time. And we did a remote with her, and we didn't know how to finish it. And I forgot who it was, I hope it was me; wouldn't it be fun if, 'cause they're dancing at this party and all, is that the two of them were in bed, and she says "Fine." We go into her bedroom, they get under the covers and they're kind of looking like that. And they're just saying "Good night" to each other. And it wasn't offensive, in any way. Course you knew it was wacky, you know there was nothing going on, but she was good at that. She was good.

INT: I had also just to toss out to you, that had David Letterman gotten THE TONIGHT SHOW, and gone out to Burbank, perhaps it would not have turned out so well for him? I don't mean he would have failed but that there was magic in what ultimately happened. 

HG: I don't know. I don't know. I think being in New York is far more fun than being in LA, for that kind of show. [INT: You've been in that studio, you know.] FIrst of all, when you come to work, there's probably more going to happen to you that you can use as material that night. Jack Paar, used what happened to him. He would have wonderful stories about the toll taker on the West Side Highway. And it doesn't happen, I think things do happen to you on the west coast, but they're kind of annoying in a very uninteresting way. [INT: I thought the telling moment and Dave seemed to have, you were there and Dave seemed to have appreciated it, was that everything he does, and he can certainly work a big room, you did beautiful shows at the Radio City Music Hall, but it didn't work at the Oscars, because it's, everybody's too self conscious and too self important.] Well that was a terrible mistake. I mean I was there- [INT: But it was a beautiful mistake. I mean it was a perfect mistake.] I watched that, I was in London setting up the London week of shows, and I was supposed to go to California, and at the last minute Dave asked me to go ahead to London, he would go out there by himself with a couple Writers. But I was in the room when the whole question of him doing it; I was in a room the year before when they asked him to host the Oscars and he said, "In no way would I do that." The next year, a man came in the door, and in one sentence, convinced him that he should do it. It was Ovitz [Michael Ovitz]. Ovitz was his manager and came in and said, "Dave, I think that this is something you have to do. You're ready to do this now." There was a reason why this guy was so powerful, I think he was very persuasive. And afterwards, when he left there were four or five of us in the office, Producers and I said, "You don't have to do this." I know Dave didn't want to do it, I said, "But why? You don't have to do this. It's not going to help your career." [INT: You said this to?] To Dave, because we went around, Morty [Robert Morton] was there, and Peter [Peter Lassally], and probably Barbara [Barbara Gaines]. Jude [Jude Brennan]. The Producers and the Executive Producers. And I was against it, I'm not trying to be a big shot now, but I didn't; so I was dismayed when what happened happened. 'Cause that didn't have to happen either, I think that the jokes that he was given, and these were planned, making fun of people's names, doesn't work in a place like that. [INT: Playing with Tom Hanks doesn't work in an environment like that. It's not the same thing.] Back in 6-A he was great; you know, Tom Hanks came out with a camera on his head, to do the first comic camera. He came out with a camera strapped to his head, and that we got his, and it was great. But that's not that. It's funny, it's a fine line, you can make fun of the business side, but you can't make fun of people.

INT: That's why I asked you to speculate about Burbank. In terms of the ultimate dynamic, but I'm not sure it's just a speculation, you know. 

HG: We'll never know, because the ship has sailed on that. But I think that it would have given Dave [David Letterman] an authority like Johnny [Johnny Carson] had an authority. And Jay [Jay Leno] doesn't. A sense of himself in an important place, like the destined, you know, the prince. The King is dead, long live the new King, and I think Dave would have been good at that and he might have then turned it into a talk show which I think it should have been. That's what Johnny did, I mean Johnny did that. I remember Burt Reynolds coming on and that's some of the best television I've ever seen. [INT: That's true, I think the part about going back to the talk show format, where it really is talk and not pre-packaged little publicity units is a lovely idea, and we see it we just don't, it's just so dry now. It's so Charlie Rose and just dry, and it would be wonderful to see it. But that ship may have sailed also.] Yeah, I think readership had a lot to do with the success of Jack's [Jack Paar] show [THE JACK PAAR TONIGHT SHOW], the people read books, and a lot of the people came on, had written a book, or talked about a book and that's, you know now people come on and they talk about their last project and how much fun they had making a film. I don't know why anyone would be interested, other than looking at a pretty man or a pretty woman. [INT: I'm not sure they are, I'm not sure that people watch the show any more for the pretty girl as much as seeing Dave react to the pretty girl, and seeing will it flow and 900 other things. It's really, it's almost become an accessory to their own form of humor.] Yeah, well he always thought the talk show was an excuse to do comedy.